Ep. 88 | Lender Mini-Series With Brad Rymer – Navigating the Approval Process

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On this episode of The Mobile Home Park Lawyer, Ferd talks to Brad Rymer who he recently closed a loan deal with. Brad gives quality insight into the financial side of MHP and offers valuable tips for borrowers. Enjoy!

 

HIGHLIGHTS:

0:00 – Intro and background on Brad
3:08 – Brad talks about what he sees coming for the MHP market in the future
6:42 – Investors have to look at things differently with the spread on interest and cap rates
9:39 – Brad talks about some deals he closed with lenders and how those are changing
10:39 – Ferd asks Brad about loan amounts and what a first time lender can expect
13:40 – Brad has talked to many borrowers who are willing to go as low as 50% and still find it difficult to get a non-recourse loan
15:43 – Ferd asks Brad about timelines when working with a local bank
19:22 – Brad gives some insight into what it takes to borrow
22:52 – Your due diligence is critical
25:10 – Brad suggests 15% is going to be the max when talking about a rent-to-own or lease-to-own
27:25 – Brad shares his tips and tricks along with one of his best deals and some nightmare deals

 

FIND | BRAD RYMER:

Cell Phone: 303-525-4850
Email: brad@cloverleafcapitalgroup.com

 

FULL TRANSCRIPTION:

Ferd Niemann:  Welcome back mobile home park nation. Ferd Niemann here again with another episode of the mobile home park lawyer podcast. My guest today is special guests. We just closed a loan together. It had some hair on it. So I’m glad that we got to have a successful result. And we can tell the fun side of the story instead of the bad side story where I thought we were 30 days ago. But this guy he’s a mortgage loan originator, works with banks of all sizes, and he also used to be the CFO and came up through another mobile home park fund that has hundreds of parks, one of the top five in the country. He’s got all kinds of MHP experience and understands finance, understands a brokerage. Great to have him on as a guest. Please help me welcome Brad Rymer, Brad, thanks for coming on.

Brad Rymer: Yeah, thank you very much, Ferd. I appreciate it. And I look forward to the podcast here.

Ferd Niemann:  Yeah, well, good to connect on this. Glad that we’ve had lots of calls on one particular, good to talk macro-level industry trends, lending trends, your experience for those of our audience that don’t know you as well as I do, gives us a little bit more about your background and how you got into this asset class.

Brad Rymer: Sure. So I’ve been in commercial real estate for over 22 years. Actually when I first, ever since I came out here to Denver and I started off at Marcus and Millichap and worked my way through all the different levels of commercial real estate ranging from direct lender, private lender working as a consultant with banks during the workout periods, during the whole recession. Then ended up starting my own company, mortgage origination, Stonebridge capital. Capital advisors here with some local heavy hitters in the mortgage, or sorry, in the sales brokerage arena. And after that, branched off started working as finance and acquisitions director with a major company for multi-family class A campuses. And then from there actually Dave Reynolds bound me. Was looking for a CFO that had experience in scaling up companies, getting them ready to go public and kind of phasing them into the next level of company growth. And that’s when Dave found me, and I joined them and spent a lot of time and growth period with that company.

Ferd Niemann:  That’s great. You have a unique experience Brad. Everybody else gets to go to Frank and Dave bootcamp. You got to work with those guys.

Brad Rymer: Yeah. I got to work directly with them, right? Yeah. I’ve got the direct knowledge from the gurus.

Ferd Niemann:  That’s great, man. That’s fun stuff. So, well, I am just Brad in your opinion on the market right now. I think you’re seeing it as much as anybody that lots of demand right now, prices are going up. Obviously, interest rates have been historically low, of late they’ve gone up a little bit. What are you foreshadow in the next six to 12 months? And then really in the next several years is where the MHP market is going.

Brad Rymer: Sure, sure. So I think when you and I began talking about a couple of the projects that you were working on for your individual portfolio, we discussed about what’s going to take place in 2021 and how with COVID and the change in commercial real estate sectors in total, the multi-family side is going to be the one that needed the, or was going to receive the most attention and obviously sticks and bricks class A, class B was still going to take a hit. Because at the end of the day, people were still living paycheck to paycheck. People that were renting couldn’t afford it and losing their jobs. They’re losing their safety net. They need a little bit of help. And so the class A market rate apartments were definitely going to take a hit and the lenders couldn’t, they still needed to make sense of that asset class. I think at the end of the day, when you and I were talking at the beginning, I described how this being low-income sector that is easiest to make sense of. And I think a lot of your viewers and a lot of my clients, and in generally speaking, a lot of people transitioning from the commercial realm are looking at this as the class that easily makes sense. And right now the market is obviously very hefty. And I think when we talked last year about the forecast for 2021, what I think is going to take place in the next six to 12 months is there’s going to be cap rate compression. I think that there, we’re going to see probably the largest amount of transactions in the MHC sector, probably of all time in one given year. And in terms of cap rates, I’ve seen cap rates shrink by 150, 200 basis points in what the cap rate for the evaluation took place just half mid last year. So we’re seeing eight and a half, you know, eight to eight and a half cap rates on your class B, class C of MHC. They’re now in the 6.75 to 7.5. And that’s kind of what I was looking forward to when I was looking, I was kind of forecasting. And then I think interest rate wise, we’re seeing reflection of that. Interest rates with spreads over the top, they’re going over the treasuries, treasuries are on the uptick, but spreads aren’t. So I think we’re still going to see, you know, low fours, high threes, low fours, and some sectors where it’s a little bit harder to make sense. I think we’re going to see in the fives, but this is still the sector that makes sense. This is the darling right now. And I think there’s going to be a lot of traction moving forward.

Ferd Niemann:  No, I agree with you. Lots of good insights there. You mentioned the spreads. I mean, I’m worried a little bit that interest rates are going to go up. Lenders can cut their spread a little bit, cut their margin to keep rates low, but is that what’s got to happen or I’m worried if cap rates go down, you know, from eight, eight and a half down to say five and a half. And if interest rates are going from three, three and a half up to low fours, I mean, the strike between interest rate in the cap rate in some instances, 125 basis points or less. I mean, obviously there’s opportunity for infill on some parks and you can make your money so to speak by increasing occupancy, but on a stabilized asset or relatively stabilized, how’s that going to work out. Is it just a lower cost of capital for your big buyers? Or are people going to have to just take a lower margin or banks going to take a lower margin to keep the wheels of commerce moving?

Brad Rymer: Yeah, I think it’s a mixture of both honesty Ferd, I think where the deals that honestly it makes sense that lenders are going to chase after and lenders I mean like your big regional banks, even on some bigger deals, probably agency, cause you’re talking about stabilized communities and if it’s stabilized community, then you’re talking about more demand from a regional bank, the bigger banks or agency themselves. I think what’s got to take places, the investors got to look at this differently. Where we were talking about kind of buying it at a seven cap, right, buying it at a 7 and 7.5 cap and really underwriting it after you really put your secret mix into the financials or your proforma. And it was truly, maybe call it a 10 to 13 cap in your underwriting, out of the Gates. You got to shrink that down. I think that that’s one thing is your expectations probably should go from a 10 to 13 cap down to maybe a nine and maybe an eight and a half to nine. I mean, there are appraisals that are coming out still with most of my deals that are ranging anywhere from call to six and three-quarters up to one that I just received that was a nine. But that deal that was a nine cap was in a rural area of Georgia. It made sense, but it’s still, in terms of the value per unit, it didn’t match the market. So it received an eight and a half cap. And there was another one that received a nine cap. So I think the valuation itself is a little bit different, but I think your expectations on how you underwrite it, what you’re going to get in your returns should be probably shrunk a little bit. Because, and it’s going to be that way. Cap rates are going to continue to shrink on this asset class. And I think expectations because of the competitive nature and who’s coming into the market, there’s a lot more buyers now, a lot more familiarity with the sector. So I think your expectations as an investor need to go down in terms of your valuation, I think lenders need to understand are they being competitive with the market and are they offering a competitive product.

Ferd Niemann:  No, good insights. I think you’re definitely spot on that more and more buyers are coming to the market and that’s going to drive prices down and you know, if you want to be competitive in the market and you have to, you know, either A, find a deal with not on the market or B have a lower expectation in the market if somebody else has a lower yield expectation. So, I mean, I tell people all the time, like, I’m glad I got in this space, you know, seven, eight years ago, but I wish I’d got in full-time couple of years before that and had to be retired by now.

Brad Rymer: Right, right, right. Well, I’ve had many bankers say, we got to, you got to start making other people rich. Well, we going to do this ourselves. I go, I’ve been there. I’m interested in salting right now. That’s what I’m interested in doing.

Ferd Niemann:  Well. It’s definitely, yeah, definitely pros and cons of each with the market. Yeah. I’m with you. The market continues to get out. Lenders I think are becoming more and more aggressive, which is good, especially on stable parks. They’re recognizing the fruits of this asset class and like, you know, this is a stable asset type. So we should be more aggressive in our yields.

Brad Rymer: Yeah. And to tap on top of that, I mean, where we were and what you and I were talking about with particular deals and not just your deals brother, deals that we had been working on together through coordinated clients themselves, one that was maybe working with you and came to me either from you or from another referral source. I mean, we were talking about below threes. I closed a lot of deals in January and February in the low threes with certain lenders, right. And these were the smaller deals that range that we had talked about being around the average of $800,000. And they were in the low threes, mid threes. That numbers jumped, that numbers jumped not only on the agency side, but that numbers jumped on the conventional lending side as well. So, you know, the rates have already moved. And I think that we’re stable. I think we’re going to be stable over the next nine months with where rates are spreads and everything. Treasuries may pump, spreads will probably be expected to shrink from the lenders. But what we were looking at three months ago is gone now and that’s why movement will take place that volatility will take place.

Ferd Niemann:  Absolutely. Let’s talk about loan size, cause I know you and I have talked about it in the past. You know in general, I think it’s agency lenders, they say, want a million-dollar loan size. You can squeeze them down to 750 depending on the deal. But really, they like to say at least a million, where does it go from Fannie and Freddie, small balance sheet to regular Freddie. And then how much is that a factor where you take your borrow works? I know you have access to dozens and dozens, if not hundreds of potential lenders, if I’m a new borrower and I’m coming in the door, how do you evaluate where to take by deal? How much of that is me? How much is the deal? How much of the size of the deal and give us a little bit insights into that so that our audience can kind of get a better feel for how this works.

Brad Rymer: Yes, of course. I mean, obviously, loan size matters on the agency platform. I think from the institutional lending side, maybe as the conduit or life insurance side, they’re entering more and more into the market understanding this space, but they’re still not really present. They’re taking a look at deals that absolutely makes sense, lower leverage style. But I think right out of the Gates, the measurements start with what’s the composition of the community. What’s the makeup of the utilities. What’s the makeup of the rent roll itself, the inventory, how many community-owned homes are there? A lot of people refer to it as park-owned homes. I’ve always called it community-owned. So it’s community-owned homes and community-owned also includes RTO, right? Rent to own units. And a lot of people don’t necessarily classify them together, but at the end of the day, if that license, or if that certificate belongs to the owner themselves still, it is community-owned. And I think the makeup and the composition of the rent roll in the inventory, is the number one factor. And then if you look at, okay, what’s the utilities, what’s the infrastructure set up and obviously pave roads. That’s the initial part of itself, the physical makeup of the community and its performing makeup. I think the other side of it is the rural, is it rural or does it belong in some CBSA or CMSA that is acceptable to the agency side itself. Typically with a community that has pretty much over 15% community-owned homes on the inventory and sits a little bit outside of major MSA that right away tells me that that is going to be either regional banks, depending on the size of the loan, a regional bank, credit union, or a community bank. And I think overall the size of it, a regional bank is going to want one of the bigger loan sizes. So I’d say anything probably around call it 250,000, 800,000 is probably going to be a home in a credit union or a community sub-regional bank.

Ferd Niemann:  Got it. And typically those community banks, they’re going to be recourse lenders, right? I mean, we’re not getting a non-recourse land most likely until we’re at conduit and or agency

Brad Rymer: Correct. Correct. And I mean, even, I’ve even I’ve talked to several borrowers that are looking to go even as low as 50%, 55%, that still find it difficult to get a non-recourse loan with any of the lenders. Regional banks, regional lenders, all the commercial banks and the credit unions just are not interested in that additional tweet. It still needs to make sense. Any specific exception that needs to be approved at the committee level, where they say, okay, well, this particular borrower will receive non-recourse because X, Y, Z, it’s just too much of a stretch. Because remember these lenders just figured out at the end of the first quarter, what the rest of their year is going to look like. They’re still phasing out what was taking place, what took place for 2020 and what needed to be worked out with the new federal regulation rules that were a little bit more lenient, but moving forward, they still needed to proforma and plan what’s their loan push going to be this year and moving forward with all the workouts completed. So they’re still trying to make sense of it. And that’s why rates have bumped up a little bit. I think, kind of trickled down as they start to say, okay, this is what we still want to close this year. But yeah, I mean, there’s still a lot of availability, but anything that needs a little bit of a special exception, unless they’re an existing borrower, it’s just not going to take place. It’s going to be full recourse. And to really clients on this type of asset class should expect that going in.

Ferd Niemann:  No, it makes sense. Now, as part, in addition to the recourse, you know, dealing with the bank, you’re going to negotiate terms, amortization schedule, interest rate, your points. What about timeline? Is there a way to, I feel like that’s been a challenge of late when a couple of projects I’ve looked at or been a part of is, I think the bank is going to take 45 days between the application and funding and it takes 75. And if it’s on a refinance, it’s annoying. If it’s on an acquisition, it’s a problem. So what guidance can you give on those timelines from a local bank, local community, regional agency, as far as both acquisition. And because I feel like I see purchase contracts pretty much every single day. And I see due diligence periods and contingency periods. I’m like, I saw one the other day 14 day due diligence period, 14 day lender period. I said, you can’t get a survey, a phase one, and an appraisal in all those timelines. Maybe if you start now and you pay extra to get to the front of the line. I wouldn’t bet my earnest money on it.

Brad Rymer: Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, ever since last year, even mid-year last year when all this was starting to take place and as COVID was really, the teeth of COVID were truly in the market itself. And the panic had really set in, I had been talking to everybody since the beginning, even when I was as a CFO and working with the acquisitions team at RB horizons is 90 days. It was 90 days of no matter what. Now I’m saying, it’s taking three weeks to just get a response from a lender, just to get somebody to say, I’m interested in this deal, you know, with all the other businesses that they’re working on. And PPP, I think is pretty much over for this next phase, but it’s three weeks before I even get responses. In some instances, even on a straight refi, it’s taking 30 days, 45 days to get a true term sheet, a true response. And that’s providing all the proposals because remember, I know exactly what these lenders need as CFO. I knew what they needed and their proposal materials. That’s what I present. I present the summary, I present what is the sponsorship. What is the project itself. I explain the community only versus the combined operations. And even in that, even in that standard, getting it to the next level, where I am ‘re under student terms and the questions saying, okay, I understand this deal. It takes possibly 30 days. So at the end of the day, I would say expect maybe 60, if not 75 days for the financing period. And also just plug in there an additional one to two, maybe 30 day extension periods. There are projects that I’ve worked on last year from September and closed in March of this year, refinances. Straightforward deals, break sponsorship, still took that long. Because not only is it the third parties and the lenders actually working to get their understanding of the project itself. But then you have title that is very consumed right now with the residential side and your third-parties getting access to the communities, surveys, etc.

Ferd Niemann:  No, I chuckle because I looked at the other day that we just closed that deal with you what? Two weeks ago in April. And we started on September 2nd. It was six and a half months. Now we had some hurdles in the middle of dealing with cities and dealing with, you know, some of the legal stuff, but it’s like, this is a six and a half month process. You got to be kidding me.

Brad Rymer: Yeah. And that’s a fine-tuned machine. And that’s an agency lender that is, it’s a fine tuned machine, multiple people,  their specialty in that team that still took that long.

Ferd Niemann:  Yeah, no I was, it’s been surprising, you know, these deals we’re working on. It’s like, man, it can’t be this long, but yeah. That’s why I wanted to give that sobering information out there for our audience. Cause I know it, you know it, but I was surprised and continually surprised on deals how long it takes a lot of times, but maybe also could you give us some insights into what it takes to borrow or what I can do as a borrower to get things in order. And you know, your first deal out of the gate halfway across the country, if you’ve got a credit score zero, net worth is zero. You’re probably not going to get the agency loans. You might not get any loan, but what can we do to get ourselves in better position to get approvals?

Brad Rymer: Yeah. I would say right out of the Gates again, as we discussed about non-recourse and the need for it, if there’s any hair on the deal, if there’s any just blatant hair on the deal, it’s already going to be, you’re going to remove a lot of lenders for the potential pool that’s going to lend on that deal. But it’s also going to make it more difficult for even the conventional lenders that do understand the space to get the thing done. But usually when I first initiate conversations with a client, I send out kind of an initiation email that states all these different items that I will need. And honestly, at the end of the day, those items, I will need all of them. And I know in this class it’s been traditional that the mom and pops, or even the seller says, well, I don’t keep necessarily great books, or I don’t keep necessarily great records. I hand write all this stuff or etc. But again, that’s part of the hair and the deal. And if we can’t get conventional rent rolls, if we can’t get conventional financial, something that breaks the stuff down, then it’s going to be a tough road up the Hill or tough ride up the Hill. You know, so I think right out of the Gates, we’re going to need sponsorship to have all of their records in place tax returns, personal financial statements updated, scheduled real estate, obviously that is very much needed and contingent guarantee schedule. What leverage do they have this contingent to their name? What guarantees do they have? And that’s just the sponsorship side, I think from the property side, need the traditional rent role, expect to need, profit and loss statements for the past full year and possibly two years, right? Most likely it’s going to be two years, a trailing 12, It just doesn’t take place anymore. Trailing three, that, you know, that’s on the sales side, but it’s not going to work on the leverage side. So I think having full financials, having a full scope of the project and be able and understand that there’s a community-only component versus the home operations. There’s a full operations, which you full well know and understand that the community only is only way lenders are looking at this thing. They’re not going to collateralize the whole masses themselves. They’re just going to look at what the community operates as. And that means a lot rent, any additional permit structure rents, like self-storage or you know, call it multifamily apartments or single-family residence. That’s what the community operates under. So whatever the lot rent is, whatever those structures are, and those expenses classified to just the community, be prepared to understand that difference and be prepared to offer that to the lender. Cause that’s all they’re going to make sense of. Home revenues that won’t be accepted and home expenses as well. And then, you know, obviously cap ex and those type of understandings are different level. That’s something that I explained down the road when I worked with clients before we do proposals.

Ferd Niemann:  A lots of good information. So where some of the people make mistakes is not understanding the terminal loan, not understanding the type of assets they have or where they should get the loan, not the term of loan, I mean, in term of the loan approval process and then not understanding how much record-keeping and how much you’ve got to have your ducks in a row to get these things right.

Brad Rymer: Exactly. And prepare the seller cause your due diligence, your due diligence is there to gather the information, understand the information, understand if you want to move forward with that asset itself. That’s why it’s so important to have a due diligence period. Then they have that bounce into a financing period, not altogether. A lot of people, they see have due diligence combined with financing. And if you can’t understand the project or if you can’t, if you don’t want to move forward with it, after the due diligence period, that’s your opportunity to get out. But if they’re combined together with due diligence and financing, well, you’re basically waiting on the financing. You can’t cancel if you don’t like the due diligence, right. And so they are then being mixed together, merged together, it kind of puts your earnest money in jeopardy.

Ferd Niemann:  No, absolutely. Another big mistake that I want you to cover for us. I see people make, and I’ve got, I told you previously, I got some bad information from another mortgage broker on this of what the current market is, what are the allowable percentages of in general park owned homes and rent to own or lease to own or contract for deed because I’ve heard, Oh, it’s 35% and somebody else will say it was 25, it was 20. Well, it depends. And that’s really important when you’re looking at your infill. And the next refinance that we’re working on, I had to infill 60 house, so it was a strategic allocation. How many am I going to rent? It’s easier to rent them right. All day, every day, it’s harder to sell them and get an approved buyer. Well, like right now I have five for sale. They’re all for sale, for sale only. I got to get them under contract, most of them. But I can’t rent them out because it could impact my percentage. I got to watch that percentage. And if I can divert, I also watch, Oh, cool, I’ve got a renter who’s been over here for 12 months. They now have their stimulus check. They now have their tax refund. Now they got the down payment now they can buy it. All right. If I convert them, I’ve taken one off that board. I can rent one over here on this board. So it’s a kind of a chess match if you will, of monitoring infill and occupancy and then really monitoring the type of the occupancy, if your plan is to set it up for an agency refinance.

Brad Rymer: Right, right. I would say, you know, I say this to everybody and I’m conservative all the time and the way I think about these and the way that I absolutely give my advice to clients. And I would say 15% is probably going to be the max. They say it’s 20%. And there is some leniency now, agency has become more and more flexible with this asset class. And as they move into this space and really familiarize and understand it, they’ve made and create some leniency in the rules themselves. But I still say it’s 15%, that’s 15% all community-owned, that’s RTO plus straight out community-owned homes that have the certificates, that have the licenses, right? So 50% anything over that, you’re already pushing the envelope. Lenders themselves again, conventional banks, credit unions, regional banks. They’re going to accept a little bit more than that, but again, they’re not going to use, and they’re not going to collateralize the homes themselves, and they’re not going to accept those revenues towards the debt service or anything. So you have to exclude all of it. So anytime it’s over 15%, over 20%, then you have to start underwriting this thing completely different way than you would as a business operator and owner, and how you’re going to buy this thing or refinance it. You have to completely considered this, at a financing side and an acquisition and ownership side. So I would say to answer your question, 15% is probably that level that becomes pushing the limit.

Ferd Niemann:  Yeah. And I want to clarify that too, because it’s not a hard and fast rule. That’s a guideline, right? Cause you can ask for a waiver. It’s just, if you have for a waiver, you ask for permission. So, I do have more than 15%, but we got to get a waiver. So everything else has to be okay. You know, and then there are new houses and it’s got good infrastructure and that kind of stuff. So it’s going to be simpler than the last park where if those were all rentals and the homes are 1975, that’s going to be a problem. So in the last park…

Brad Rymer: Yeah, yeah. Age of the home there too

Ferd Niemann:  Sell only. So definitely a number of components to go into this thing. This is all good information Brad. What other tips or tricks do you have before we go, or do you have any great stories you want to share as far as your easiest loan or your hardest loan?

Brad Rymer: Sure, sure. I mean tips and tricks. Like I stated earlier throughout the conversation that we’ve had today, which I very much enjoyed so far, I would say expect again, expect the underwriting and your pursuits of the project. It’s going to take a little bit longer for you to isolate that great deal anymore. There’s a lot more efficiency. There’s a lot more, I guess there’s a lot more fish or a lot more predators seeking these assets. And so the more aggressive that they get, right, you’re going to have to compete against them, but you can get to that point where you say, do I get more aggressive or do I just walk away and is walking away during the whole negotiation process, maybe the best thing you can do to call bluff.  And so obviously agents are out there, and I don’t want to, you know, I don’t want to talk bad against the agents, because the agents are providing deals, but also from a strategy perspective, sometimes just walking away and saying that they’re just calling my bluff is the best thing you can do. Because they may come back and accept your offer. But I think you have to be more aggressive. You have to understand that you’re competing against a lot more people than you used to and where you think you might be the only one communicating with that mom and pop, most likely it’s not anymore. Most likely that stone has been unturned. And there’s a lot of them still out there, but I would say most likely they’ve been contacted you know, other tips and tricks, I would say again, underwrite a little bit higher than what you’re expecting. So if I’m saying low fours, in terms of interest rates with 20 to 25-year amortization underwriting four and a half, underwrite at four and three quarters and 20-year amortization. If that deal still works there, then it’s going to work with most likely what we’re going to get at the end of the day. Cause by pushing the lenders, I represent the clients to the lenders themselves, kind of like their partner in the deal, man, I go after the lower rates, but if you underwrite it at a certain higher point and it still works because you’re approaching it from a conservative basis, then most likely it’s going to work at the lower leverage level too, or lower rates. I mean you know, I would say kind of, I guess the nightmare and best deals one of my most fluid deals probably closed in like 30 days, didn’t have to work too much with the borrower. The borrower I’ve already closed multiple deals with them. It was the beginning of this year, those multiple deals at the end of last year and then this year, and really just transitioned into needing a refinance. They contacted the lender, the lender through the representation just needed my underwriting to the deal. I submitted it, got it done in probably like 20 days because the appraisal was, they already had an appraisal from six months ago. They were willing to make, wave that exception. So they got that done pretty quick. You know, nightmare deals, I don’t know. There’s been several projects that, you know, that have risen from the dead or died, risen from the dead, died, risen from the dead. I mean, you and I worked at one just recently that it was kind of hit or miss. I didn’t know what was going to happen at the end of the day. And you know, I had to, in that particular project itself, I had to go to old resources, old contacts from former, just companies and relationships to you know, throw into the pool, and possibly give ideas to the agency or the intermediary themselves. But that happens often. I can’t really say that any deal is a real nightmare because none of them are all at the same. You know, as you, and I know like no projects are, no project in any commercial real estate deal, let alone mobile home communities is ever the same. So they all have their own fingerprint. And you just got to embrace that.

Ferd Niemann:  No great point. You’re right. That’s what makes it exciting, but it also makes it stressful. Like, man, why can we not get this thing done?

Brad Rymer: I just worked on something similar. Why’s this going through? What’s happening with this? What makes it so exceptional? And just timing, a lot of the times timing and a lot of times there’s factors that we can’t control. If somebody else involved with the project, whether it’s a third party or some sort of a municipal agent or representative that maybe throws a wrench in the gears. And we got to overcome. Cause once something happens and throws a little bit of shadow on the project that shadow remains, it just remains, and you got to overcome it.

Ferd Niemann:  Right. And then part of the curse of that is any shadow will delay timelines and time. That’s what’s hard about our recent deal. I was like, man, it kept lagging and lagging and taking on water. And then you got more bankers involved, you got more underwriters involved, you got lawyers involved and you’re like, you guys.

Brad Rymer: That cost keeps spinning, especially on the legal side.

Ferd Niemann:  Exactly. Well, the legal fees are okay. Depends if you’re paying them or if you are receiving them. So I’m bipolar when it comes to legal fees.

Brad Rymer: Yeah, exactly.

Ferd Niemann:  Well Brad, this is good. Where can people find you? How can people reach you after the show?

Brad Rymer: Sure, sure. So as we work in, as the business grows, I’m developing out all the different portals to reach out and contact me, including the website. We’ve got a place market there right now, but the new ones are coming out and will be released in the next probably week or week and a half. So I’ll release that website out to my LinkedIn profile here shortly. But I think the best way to contact me right now is via my business cell (303) 525-4850 or my email, brad@cloverleafcapitalgroup.com.

Ferd Niemann:  All right, sounds good, Brad. Thanks again. Appreciate it.

Brad Rymer: Not a problem Ferd. Thank you very much. I enjoyed it. And best of luck with you and your business.

Ferd Niemann:  Likewise.

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Arnold Schwarzenegger